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[Music]

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greetings friends fellow earthlings and

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luminaries in the human journey

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welcome to ask an astrobiologist the

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show that celebrates the science

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and celebrates the scientists involved

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in our quest to understand the nature of

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life

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i'm your host dr graham the cosmo

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biologist lao and we are brought to you

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by the nasa astrobiology program and

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saginet.org

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as always we want to thank all of you

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who are out there watching our show

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right now live on youtube and asking

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questions for our guest in the chat all

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of you who tune in to our show after the

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recording is posted on youtube and all

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of you who ask questions using the

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hashtag

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askastrobio on twitter this month we'd

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like to give a special shout out to dr

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jim pass a longtime viewer of the show

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who's also the founder and director of

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the astro sociology research institute

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dr pass always brings really intriguing

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questions to our show and for our guests

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in the realm of sociology and other

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humanities which are also a very crucial

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part of this quest that we all share in

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better understanding our place in the

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cosmos

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and that's actually kind of fitting with

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what we're speaking about this month uh

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this month we'd like to we're going to

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be talking with a guest who has a

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background not just in science but also

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in theology as well as history in some

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other realms we titled this episode

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exploring outer space and the inner self

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because we have joining us the reverend

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dr lucas mix who studies life concepts

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across disciplines and wonders what is

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it about life that makes us look for

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more of it in space

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he is the ninth bloomberg chair of

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astrobiology at the library of congress

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he holds a doctorate in evolutionary

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theory and he works to facilitate

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science engagement with religious

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leaders so welcome to ask an

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astrobiologist dr mix

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ah wonderful to be here

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yes i'm so glad you could join us i'm so

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glad to finally have you on the show

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i've been thinking about you for a very

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long time and how cool it would be to

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have you given your background and your

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expertise and now that you've been a

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chair of astrobiology the library of

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congress that the timing just felt very

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right to have you

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on the show um so before i get to get

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started here kind of going into what

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you're currently up to and and some of

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the things you've been doing in your

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career for all of our guests i always

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like to ask them about their science

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origin story what got them into becoming

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researchers

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but with you i want to actually ask what

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were the trajectories for you and not

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just science but also theology do you

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have an origin story that kind of

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culminated to bring you forward to

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finding this kind of dual career

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i do i i find this i love this question

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just because i get so enthusiastic about

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the meaning of life uh and taking that

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from various angles

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so when i was in high school there was a

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great genetics program and that really

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got me enthused

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about how i could do biology without

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making a mess

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and i i really liked this idea of you

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know the mathematical study of biology

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and

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i ended up going to the university of

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washington and studying biochemistry and

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comparative religion at the same time

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when i was a

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junior i really wanted to go to the nasa

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academy

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which is a program for undergraduates

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and so i applied to that and i got this

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phone call out of the blue from jerry

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soffen who had been the project

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scientist

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for the viking missions

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and he was running outreach at goddard

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space center and he said no no no you

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don't want to do nasa academy you want

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to do a research program

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and so he talked me into

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the

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director student researcher program at

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at goddard space flight center

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where i was strangely enough doing uh

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thermal engineering

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um

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but uh it was just this great

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opportunity to talk with people and get

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involved

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and it happened that that year the

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martian meteorite alh 84006

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was discovered

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but

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it was announced

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that year that folks at johnson space

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center thought there was evidence of

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life in there so this

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really

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new

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enthusiasm for the question of life on

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mars

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developed right at that time that i was

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working for nasa um and i just got roped

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right in

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wow it's such cool timing so i was in

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the nasa academy it was a wonderful

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experience but i never had the benefit

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of meeting jerry sawfin um you know he

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passed away back then unfortunately

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and we lost him but i think for those

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watching jerry salfin was such an

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advocate for young people getting

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involved in science and space

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exploration and joining nasa uh we even

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have a travel grant for young students

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named after jerry salford and that those

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of us who are in the nasa academy we

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review the applications for that um

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that's very cool and it's so cool that

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you also mentioned that kind of that

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time in history when you were studying

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then and working for nasa in 1996 when

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alh 84001 was kind of announced i was a

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kid i remember

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bill clinton coming out on on the lawn

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of the white house and making this

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proclamation that we might have just

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made the biggest discovery of all of

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humanity and indeed the word

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astrobiology wasn't really used by nasa

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until that moment before that we called

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it exobiology and then it became

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astrobiology uh and so i love that that

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kind of was like your birthplace into

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this whole realm and so what kind of led

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you then to want to

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explore not just you know astrobiology

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but what's the other side of the coin

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yeah no so i i was really interested in

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uh in the big questions uh particularly

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this what is life

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and so i decided to go someplace for

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graduate school where i could study keep

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studying both

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i went to

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harvard which has really good theology

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program and

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i went there for

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organismic and evolutionary biology

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um and i had really intended to go into

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science for a while and be a a

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professional scientist but i found about

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halfway through graduate school that i

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spent all of my free time talking with

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scientists about god and uh and so i

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i really decided that it was important

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for me to go to seminary as soon as i

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got my doctorate i i wanted to finish

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and i was really a little bit worried

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about my my doctoral committee you know

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because they put all this work into me

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um and how would they feel about me

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going to seminary but they were very

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very supportive

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i am

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i just think we

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we're always doing this work of trying

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to place ourselves in the universe and

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that's not just a science question it's

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also an ethical question and a meaning

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question

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and so

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uh you know how do we do that that work

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of putting those things together

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and um

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that that led me on to you know try and

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try and keep both hats off at the same

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time i was a college chaplain for a year

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i was called chaplain for four years uh

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at the university of arizona uh and

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after that

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moved on to my current position

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which

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facilitates giving science information

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to church leaders

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that's fantastic i absolutely come back

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to the eclipse project and what you've

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been doing there

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but first a few things i want to bring

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out one for for younger people right now

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who want to learn more about

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astrobiology there's something really

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awesome right now in the works it's the

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third version of something called the

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astrobiology primer and the cool thing

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about the reverend dr lucas mix is he

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was the author of the very first

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astrobiology primer and the advocate for

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really bringing this together to have

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some source of knowledge that kind of

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allows us to understand many of the

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diverse topics and disciplines that come

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into astrobiology so i would just love

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to hear from you what was the birth of

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this idea of building the astrobiology

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primer and what was that like kind of

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being the progenitor of this really

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incredible thing that we all now in

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astrobiology have used

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yeah um so so graham mentioned that in

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96 was when when astrobiology

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in its sort of current incarnation came

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about it was called exobiology before

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that um and that came both from from the

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martian meteorite uh and the first

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discovery of extrasolar planets

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um and so we

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we started having conferences and i i

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think it was um

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i think it was in 2000 it might have

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been 2001. i was a young graduate

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student

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i didn't know any better and uh i i said

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you know we've got these biologists and

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these chemists and these geologists and

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astronomers and they don't all speak the

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same language so how do we how do we

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solve that

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maybe maybe we could just like assign

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reading to people maybe we could say you

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know here's this short document that

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introduces astrobiology

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and if you come to a conference on

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astrobiology you can expect people to

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have read it and anything that's not in

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there then you would have to explain uh

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because frequently you know for example

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the word terrestrial if you're a

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biologist

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means on land and not in the water

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and if you are an astronomer uh it means

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a rocky planet and not a gaseous planet

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um so so how do you see that everyone's

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using the same language

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and i uh i mentioned this to barry

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bloomberg who was the head of the nasa

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astrobiology institute and he said great

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you should write this

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and i was just completely overwhelmed

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i like to say that

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six years a hundred contributors 24

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authors eight editors

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later

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we came out with the first astrobiology

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primer a quick and dirty introduction to

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astrobiology

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and

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it was a blast i learned a lot we had

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great communication entirely written by

285
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early career scientists and it was such

286
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a success that we did version two uh in

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2016

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and version three is

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almost out we're we're just about to

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cross the finish line so that's very

291
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exciting i have i've handed on to some

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other folks

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um

294
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but i'm looking forward to reading it

295
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absolutely me too i i think one thing i

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commonly will tell early graduate

297
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students especially two of the best

298
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things you can do to learn more about

299
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the field of astrobiology is to read the

300
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astrobiology primer and to go to the

301
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astrobiology graduate conference because

302
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those two things will help you to learn

303
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:08,800
what's going on in other disciplines

304
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within astrobiology as well and you

305
00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:12,560
mentioned barry blumberg there and i'd

306
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like to come back because now you've

307
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been the ninth barry blumberg chair of

308
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astrobiology at the library of congress

309
00:11:23,829 --> 00:11:21,839
and i unfortunately i missed your talk

310
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:23,839
at the recent apps icon but i saw you

311
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give a talk at the recent social meeting

312
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which we can talk about in a little bit

313
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:29,760
as well um but it's a really beautiful

314
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:32,160
talk about ascension narratives in

315
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science and theology and in fiction

316
00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:36,640
writing i'd love to hear about your work

317
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:38,240
at the library of congress and and how

318
00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:39,279
that culminates now and what you're

319
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:41,279
currently working on

320
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awesome everything is connected i i feel

321
00:11:46,870 --> 00:11:45,920
like you know all of these stories tied

322
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:46,880
together

323
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:52,230
so so first of all the the bloomberg

324
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chair um at the library of congress is

325
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:57,279
this opportunity to think about the

326
00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:00,320
societal implications of astrobiology

327
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:02,560
and a lot of these these big picture

328
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questions that i'm interested in

329
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:07,600
and i propose that i would go there and

330
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:09,760
read through carl sagan's

331
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:11,519
papers

332
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particularly he was interested in

333
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:16,560
writing this book called ethos on ethics

334
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:19,920
after his book's book on the cosmos

335
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:21,920
and he never wrote that book but it just

336
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:25,120
had some amazing insights and so

337
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:26,639
that was one of the one of the reasons i

338
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:28,000
was there

339
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,639
my research has really come together as

340
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:32,800
this discussion about

341
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,240
planetary

342
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:36,560
travel and stories we tell about

343
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:39,120
planetary travel so there's this great

344
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:41,440
quote from galileo who said

345
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,440
the intention of the holy spirit is to

346
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:46,000
tell us how the how to go to heaven and

347
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:48,480
not how the heaven goes

348
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:51,040
and this was galileo saying that the

349
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:54,079
church should not be involved in

350
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,360
astronomy

351
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:57,279
and that scripture was doing things

352
00:13:01,910 --> 00:13:00,320
other than astronomy and those things

353
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:01,920
were the important parts of scripture it

354
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:04,320
was not knocking scripture but saying

355
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:06,480
you know this is this is something with

356
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:08,959
profound ethical significance um and we

357
00:13:14,550 --> 00:13:12,480
might focus there anyway i totally agree

358
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:14,560
with galileo that the church should not

359
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:15,839
be telling astronomers how to do

360
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,120
astronomy

361
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:19,440
but i also think that the way we talk

362
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:21,360
about going to heaven and the way we

363
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,920
talk about going to space

364
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:25,920
have always been tied together in our

365
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:27,360
imagination

366
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:29,680
so i i traced the history of this looked

367
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:30,480
at

368
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:34,959
um really

369
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:37,200
going back pretty early but um

370
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,800
you know some 16th century science

371
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:40,720
fiction all the way through carl sagan

372
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,560
who was a great science fiction author

373
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:44,560
uh as well as a great astronomer and

374
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:46,800
astrobiologist

375
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,240
and i think for me the big take-home

376
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:52,560
was that we have this idea that there's

377
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:54,880
there's higher and lower physical space

378
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:56,800
which is pretty straightforward

379
00:14:01,750 --> 00:13:58,240
and there's

380
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:01,760
higher and lower forms of life

381
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:04,079
now all of us know what that means we

382
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:06,000
think of ourselves as higher forms of

383
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:08,399
life and other forms of life is lower

384
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:09,519
than us

385
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,199
um

386
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,000
and then there's this idea of of higher

387
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:16,560
and lower spiritual so we talk about

388
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:18,160
jesus ascending

389
00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:18,959
um

390
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:21,519
or you know going up to heaven why is it

391
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:24,000
that we talk about as going up to heaven

392
00:14:28,829 --> 00:14:26,880
and historically we've always

393
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:28,839
we have generally at least

394
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:32,240
um in the west talked about those all

395
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:33,440
together

396
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:36,160
now as a biologist i would say well

397
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:39,760
higher lower life really aren't things

398
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:40,639
in

399
00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:43,600
biology we talk about

400
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:46,000
the development of an individual who

401
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,880
grows up along a a fixed path set by

402
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:50,000
genes

403
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:51,839
and we also talk about the evolution of

404
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:55,199
a species and that doesn't go up it goes

405
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:56,880
out

406
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:01,040
diversification

407
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:05,360
which is not always about a cent

408
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:08,880
um and as most of you probably know uh

409
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,360
copernicus reminded us that that we are

410
00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:13,760
not near the center

411
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:15,760
of the cosmos

412
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,880
um

413
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:18,079
that uh

414
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:20,160
you know this up and down in astronomy

415
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:22,160
is relative as well

416
00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:24,639
so i i sort of wanted to unpack what it

417
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:28,320
means when we talk about going up

418
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,199
and ascent and it's probably not biology

419
00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:33,360
and it's probably not astronomy most of

420
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,639
the time

421
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:36,720
when we talk about growing up

422
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:39,120
it's something ideological or spiritual

423
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,639
and how do we figure out what we're

424
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:42,880
bringing to that discussion in terms of

425
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,600
what we think is is going up or growing

426
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:47,600
up um

427
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,160
and and what that means so

428
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,639
should we go to space i think yes

429
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:55,199
i'm a big fan of space travel and i'm a

430
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:57,360
fan of space exploration so it's not

431
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:00,000
because space is better than earth and

432
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:02,720
it's not that we will leave earth behind

433
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:05,519
which i think is a a very dangerous uh

434
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,240
idea but it's an idea that when we go

435
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:10,320
into space we are going out we are

436
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,199
diversifying discovering strange new

437
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:16,399
worlds uh and civilizations

438
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:17,759
and uh

439
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,079
so i'm very excited about that

440
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:22,560
i uh i think we should be very careful

441
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:24,800
because historically this idea

442
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:25,839
that

443
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:29,360
societies evolve towards

444
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:32,160
you know some good future that there is

445
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,600
um

446
00:16:37,829 --> 00:16:35,120
uh

447
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:37,839
a development as a society

448
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:40,720
it sort of lures us into thinking well

449
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:43,759
if i know what a future society should

450
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:46,160
like look like when it's grown up

451
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:48,480
then i have an obligation to help it

452
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:50,959
along the way

453
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,000
and that starts getting really dangerous

454
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:56,160
ethically really fast

455
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:58,800
in terms of things like eugenics

456
00:17:02,829 --> 00:17:01,360
and and some civilizations deciding that

457
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:02,839
they're better than other

458
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,880
civilizations um it's generally called

459
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:06,480
white man's burden

460
00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:09,199
uh this idea that that we know

461
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:10,959
we're better so how do we think

462
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,679
critically i am a priest and i do think

463
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:15,120
there is a better i think there's a

464
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:16,640
right way to go

465
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,720
and i want to be clear that we're not

466
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:21,360
getting that from biology or astronomy

467
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:22,720
we don't need to get it from

468
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:24,400
christianity

469
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:26,160
but let's think about where we get it

470
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:27,919
and let's talk together

471
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:29,280
uh you know

472
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,200
do we want to go to space why do we want

473
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:33,520
to go to space what is it up there that

474
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:35,760
we value and what are we

475
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:38,880
leaving behind or not leaving behind

476
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:40,880
that's so beautiful yeah and there's so

477
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:42,559
much to unpack there

478
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:43,760
i do want to say for our audience

479
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,440
watching right now on youtube please

480
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:47,760
keep asking your questions uh for lucas

481
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:49,280
we will get to those as soon as we can i

482
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:50,640
have my own questions though to ask

483
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:53,440
first and i have a lot of them um i will

484
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:55,039
uh we will have videos eventually from

485
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:57,440
abs icon and social of lucas's talks and

486
00:18:01,270 --> 00:17:59,360
so you can learn more about these ideas

487
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,280
of ascension narratives uh in our

488
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,200
storytelling uh one thing we want to

489
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:05,280
point out on the nasa astrobiology

490
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:08,400
twitter account at nasa astro bio we

491
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,720
asked the audience this week

492
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,640
how they kind of prefer getting their

493
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:14,960
stories about journey in the universe

494
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:16,880
and exploring the universe and we gave

495
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,720
them some options like books movies and

496
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:20,160
podcasts

497
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:21,600
others could have included things like

498
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:22,960
video games and things like that but

499
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:25,679
twitter limits you a little bit there

500
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,520
interestingly we've got movies was the

501
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,000
top response people liked watching film

502
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:31,840
about exploring the universe books was a

503
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:33,760
close second though so that kind of

504
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,039
touches near and dear to my heart since

505
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:37,120
i preferred books myself but we had

506
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,039
things like star star wars in 2001 a

507
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:41,200
space odyssey where some of the films

508
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:43,280
mentioned uh many different books were

509
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,960
mentioned i personally mentioned i love

510
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:46,559
the sci-fi horror video game series

511
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:48,080
called dead space

512
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,919
which also has its own religious and

513
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:52,400
scientific aspects as well

514
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,039
but a question then for you lucas is

515
00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:57,600
what stories have inspired you to want

516
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:01,760
to explore life and explore the universe

517
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:05,039
oh i am a huge fan of science fiction

518
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:07,520
i am a fan of a genre that's come to be

519
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:10,240
known as speculative fiction so rather

520
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:11,039
than

521
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:14,000
emphasizing the science it emphasizes

522
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:15,600
what if things were a little bit

523
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:17,039
different

524
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:17,919
um

525
00:19:21,350 --> 00:19:20,480
i certainly enjoy star trek

526
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,360
um

527
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:23,600
there is an author by the name of ursula

528
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:24,960
k le guin

529
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:28,160
who does amazing stories about life on

530
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:29,760
other planets and how it might be

531
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:32,000
different than life here i was just

532
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:33,840
rereading a snippet of her book the

533
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:35,679
dispossessed

534
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,000
which talks all about both the physics

535
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,559
of space travel and

536
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:42,160
like traveling away from our comfort

537
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:43,200
space

538
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:46,480
so i huge fan of that recently a fan of

539
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,520
uh

540
00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:49,360
nedia coraphor's

541
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:52,400
binti trilogy uh which explores some

542
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:55,200
similar topics uh

543
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:57,919
sagan is amazing john scalzi is amazing

544
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:00,400
i'll do a quick plug there is a space on

545
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:03,360
the page podcast from the library of

546
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:05,280
congress klugey center

547
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,240
and i have conversations between

548
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:10,159
astrobiologists and science fiction

549
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,039
authors about exactly these topics

550
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:15,679
and we have a great time so check that

551
00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:17,600
out if that's interesting that was

552
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:19,039
actually my next note that i wanted to

553
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:20,559
ask about the podcast

554
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:22,799
there have been six episodes now uh

555
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,480
three by by the previous chair of

556
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:26,720
astrobiology three by yourself is the

557
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:28,559
intention now to have three for every

558
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:31,120
chair of astrobiology moving forward uh

559
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:32,640
and what and also on top of that what

560
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:34,320
really inspired you to bring together

561
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:36,080
science fiction authors and scientists

562
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:39,679
together in the episodes that you ran

563
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,240
yeah um it is our hope that that each

564
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:44,080
new bloomberg chair will do three new

565
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:48,640
episodes uh so david barron's focused on

566
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:51,919
books about the exploration of mars in

567
00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:53,120
particular

568
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:55,679
and then i had three on science fiction

569
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,950
astrobiology has been wonderful for me

570
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:02,559
because it's a group of people

571
00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:05,360
willing to ask these big questions

572
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:07,600
um and it's not just about asking the

573
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:09,440
big questions though i've discovered

574
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:11,600
it's asking the big questions and then

575
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:14,320
seriously asking what science can tell

576
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:15,280
us

577
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:17,440
that answers those

578
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:19,200
or doesn't answer those

579
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:20,720
um and so

580
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,320
it's a group of people that's very

581
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,400
open-minded really interested in

582
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:26,640
learning across different fields

583
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,520
um

584
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:29,520
and so i thought you know

585
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:30,720
wouldn't it be great to get some of

586
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:33,039
these people many of whom are our ardent

587
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:34,320
sci-fi

588
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:35,440
fans

589
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:37,200
together with science fiction authors

590
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:38,720
and really talk about

591
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:39,840
this

592
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:42,080
imaginative exploration of the universe

593
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,039
that we're all doing together

594
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:47,039
that's fantastic and i love that you

595
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:48,880
brought up big questions answer biology

596
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:51,280
is about big questions and we humans

597
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,559
we've been asking ourselves not just

598
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:54,320
through science but through theology and

599
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:56,320
through you know philosophy these very

600
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,159
big questions for a long time and i'd

601
00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:00,400
like to share a personal story um right

602
00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:01,200
now

603
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:03,280
when i was young i went to a methodist

604
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:04,400
church

605
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:07,520
but when i was a young person i went to

606
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:09,039
a methodist church and

607
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:11,679
pastor tom ozenbach was my pastor when i

608
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:13,919
was a young child but he was my family's

609
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:16,159
pastor as well he was involved in our

610
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:19,039
lives everything that i saw weddings and

611
00:22:24,549 --> 00:22:21,440
funerals family gatherings he was always

612
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,559
there and as i progressed in my life and

613
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:26,559
started exploring more in philosophy and

614
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:28,559
science uh i went to college and started

615
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:30,480
studying the sciences and he knew i was

616
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,080
very interested in space exploration and

617
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,159
i'd interned for nasa and did some of

618
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:36,000
these really cool things and and so at

619
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:37,919
that point every time i would i would go

620
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:40,000
home to pennsylvania

621
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:42,159
to see a wedding or unfortunately a

622
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:44,640
funeral and pastor tom would be there he

623
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:46,480
always wanted to have conversations with

624
00:22:53,830 --> 00:22:47,200
me

625
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:53,840
sharing in big questions with people

626
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:56,320
with slightly different viewpoints um

627
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:58,559
for instance during my grandfather's

628
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:00,480
funeral when he passed away which is

629
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:02,480
very hard for me uh pastor tom and i had

630
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,960
a really just very beautiful moment

631
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:06,960
about maybe an hour long conversation

632
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:08,480
because he saw that i was dealing with a

633
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:10,000
lot of stuff

634
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:11,600
we got into a conversation about our

635
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:13,760
beliefs and understanding but then we

636
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:15,520
also started talking about the cosmos

637
00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:17,840
and about space and pastor tom always

638
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:19,520
wanted to hear about the best hubble

639
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:22,080
space telescope images and new missions

640
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:24,080
from nasa and when we were going to

641
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:26,799
europa and mars and venus and all of

642
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:28,080
these kinds of things he wanted to know

643
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:29,520
when those things were going to happen

644
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:31,360
and if i was part of it and what i knew

645
00:23:34,830 --> 00:23:33,120
about it and then he was always trying

646
00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:34,840
to to frame that himself in the

647
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:37,440
conversation with god and christianity

648
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:39,520
and the bible and his understanding of

649
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:41,840
the world and so i'd like to kind of

650
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:43,760
using this story also transition now to

651
00:23:47,269 --> 00:23:44,720
something else that you've been working

652
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:47,279
with uh the eckless project

653
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:49,039
equipping christian leadership in an age

654
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:51,200
of science i'd love to hear more about

655
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:53,440
the project in general and as well as

656
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:56,720
your role in this project

657
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:57,679
yeah

658
00:24:01,029 --> 00:24:00,240
we did some some sociological research

659
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:01,039
um

660
00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:03,840
i think up to 10 years ago now and asked

661
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:05,279
people where they got their science

662
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:06,960
information from

663
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:08,960
um and who they talked to about science

664
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:11,120
and a lot of them like graham talk to

665
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:12,720
their pastor about it

666
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:13,520
um

667
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:18,080
equipping christian leadership in an age

668
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:19,360
of science

669
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:22,159
is the program in the united kingdom

670
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:23,120
that

671
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:25,760
really works at how do we get science

672
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:26,960
information

673
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:30,720
to church leaders um and more than that

674
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,240
how do we get them to really think

675
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:34,799
critically about engaging like how do

676
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:36,960
the pieces get put together

677
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:40,400
so eclis in particular we do

678
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:42,720
conferences for senior leaders we get

679
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:45,200
science information to them

680
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:46,400
we have

681
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,720
grant programs for congregations and for

682
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:50,000
seminaries

683
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:52,080
but we also do research and a little bit

684
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:54,159
of policy advising

685
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,880
on science religion topics

686
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:57,919
i

687
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:01,360
myself

688
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:03,440
that all of us do the work of

689
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:05,679
interpreting our place in the universe

690
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:08,880
like all of us ask questions of science

691
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:10,960
it's only a question it's only a matter

692
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:12,640
of whether we do that well

693
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:14,559
you know how do we engage with experts

694
00:25:17,909 --> 00:25:15,840
how do we think critically about the

695
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:17,919
physical world and i think the same is

696
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:19,840
true about ethics and worldview and

697
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:21,200
meaning

698
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:23,200
everyone is doing these theological

699
00:25:26,590 --> 00:25:24,559
things

700
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,600
um you know maybe it's not

701
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:28,400
theologically uh you know maybe we

702
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:29,840
wouldn't use that word if you're not a

703
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:32,240
theist um but everyone wants to know how

704
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:34,320
they fit into the world

705
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,640
and so if all of us are doing all of

706
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:38,159
this work together

707
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:40,240
how do we have conversations together

708
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:43,840
about doing it well so i really do think

709
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:45,840
all of us are doing science

710
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:48,480
all of us are doing theology

711
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:51,440
um but let's let's think about doing it

712
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:54,000
collectively critically

713
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:55,039
um

714
00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:57,600
and and bring the best of ourselves to

715
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:00,240
it uh so i'm i'm really passionate about

716
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:03,120
this and and getting particularly the

717
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:05,840
people who have devoted their lives to

718
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:07,039
um

719
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:12,240
those conversations with others

720
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:13,440
and start putting all the pieces

721
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:14,640
together

722
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:16,320
you know it's so powerful and i feel

723
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:18,320
like so many people focus so much on on

724
00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:20,640
the tools of division and not so much on

725
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,919
the tools that really can help us come

726
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:23,679
together and i love that that quote you

727
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:25,440
just said there of all of us are trying

728
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:26,960
to interpret you know our understanding

729
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:28,559
of our place in the universe that's

730
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:29,600
that's really important this

731
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,279
interpretation because we all come to it

732
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:33,200
from our own background our own

733
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:35,360
experiences our own personal lens and we

734
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:36,799
all have so many differences but there's

735
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:39,679
so much to share so much to work on

736
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:41,840
together um we have a few more things we

737
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:43,120
want to talk about with you for the

738
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,200
audience i promise i will get to the q a

739
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:47,760
and your questions for lucas very very

740
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,320
soon um one more thing actually two more

741
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,480
things before i go into a new segment

742
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:54,480
we're going to introduce for the show um

743
00:26:58,390 --> 00:26:56,880
first off i mentioned earlier that i

744
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:58,400
heard you give a talk on ascension

745
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,960
narratives at the meeting of sosha

746
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:02,559
that's the society for social and

747
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:04,960
conceptual issues in astrobiology

748
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:06,720
you are one of the founding members and

749
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:08,240
someone has been part of social for some

750
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,080
time um i'd love it if you could just

751
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:12,000
explain to our audience some of whom

752
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,080
might want to take part in social in the

753
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:15,919
future about the organization and what

754
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:18,320
future meetings will look like

755
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:19,200
yeah

756
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:21,760
so astrobiology has always been good at

757
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:23,360
being interdisciplinary and there are

758
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,799
some of us who

759
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:26,720
don't just do natural sciences and do

760
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:29,520
that um but it's sort of hard in the

761
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:31,919
science conferences to get time for

762
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:35,760
those those big questions and those um

763
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:38,000
things like theology and philosophy and

764
00:27:41,909 --> 00:27:38,880
ethics

765
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:41,919
so we started this group

766
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:44,720
uh called socia and it's specifically

767
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,240
focused on

768
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:48,399
social and conceptual issues related to

769
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,720
astrobiology uh we try and meet uh every

770
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:54,080
other year

771
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:56,399
um and so we have an academic conference

772
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:59,279
but i think if you if you google socia

773
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:01,520
s-s-o-c-i-a

774
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:04,399
um it should pop up

775
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:07,679
and you can learn more about all of the

776
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:10,240
cool people and events that we have

777
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:11,760
awesome yeah i was really happy to

778
00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:13,919
attend myself i gave a talk in the realm

779
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,919
of astrobotany and a current project i

780
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:17,840
have and the ethics of growing plants in

781
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:19,679
mars regolith with the artist lucia

782
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,880
monge

783
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,640
which and i really enjoyed all the talks

784
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:24,000
of the conference it's a really fun

785
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:25,360
meeting and a good group of people to

786
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,919
join um lucas before i get to a new

787
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:29,200
segment we're going to try i have one

788
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:31,600
more thing um i myself have been

789
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:33,200
training in the martial arts since i was

790
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:36,000
five years old i've traveled to korea to

791
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:37,120
train

792
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:38,880
i've learned different kinds of styles

793
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:41,200
tangsudo taekwondo

794
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:43,120
okinawan weapons all kinds of things and

795
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:45,279
i think a lot of us in the sciences and

796
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:47,279
various realms of academia are also

797
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:48,480
martial artists and i understand that

798
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:50,320
you're a martial artist as well

799
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:52,159
i'd love to hear you talk about what

800
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,600
martial arts training has done for you

801
00:28:57,269 --> 00:28:55,440
in your life what it means for you what

802
00:28:59,350 --> 00:28:57,279
styles you train in and anything around

803
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:59,360
that realm as well

804
00:29:01,669 --> 00:29:00,399
yeah

805
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,679
i am

806
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:04,320
martial arts is the family business and

807
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:06,880
i started when i was seven years old so

808
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:09,039
i usually tell people it's hard to say

809
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,640
what impact it's had on my life because

810
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:12,240
i don't remember life without martial

811
00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:13,279
arts

812
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:16,880
i started in taekwondo which is a korean

813
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:20,000
style that focuses on kicks and punches

814
00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:21,200
i

815
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:29,200
throws

816
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:30,960
um

817
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,240
i am just

818
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:34,399
well once again for me it's all about

819
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:36,799
negotiating your way in the universe

820
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,679
um

821
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:39,520
and uh and how keto has given me some

822
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,520
very concrete tools for like

823
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:43,679
understanding how i fit

824
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:44,880
um

825
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:47,039
and uh it's nice to have practical

826
00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:49,279
demonstrations you know i particularly

827
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,520
as an academic there's lots of of

828
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:53,200
abstract questions

829
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:54,880
and you know when

830
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:56,640
when someone throws you or when you pick

831
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:58,960
up and throw someone like that's a very

832
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:02,159
practical activity um and uh much to

833
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:03,760
many people's surprise

834
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:05,120
if someone knows how to throw you it's

835
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,039
very fun to be thrown

836
00:30:11,909 --> 00:30:09,679
as long as you know how to land properly

837
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:11,919
um but we make sure you learn that first

838
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:14,720
uh also a big fan of of tai chi

839
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:17,600
uh i have been teaching hapkido and tai

840
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:19,039
chi

841
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:20,399
oh for

842
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:22,960
30 years now um but if you want to know

843
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:25,919
more enso center for international arts

844
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,799
uh in redmond uh we have some great hub

845
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:30,399
keto programs

846
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:32,320
i love it yeah i'm glad to go plug your

847
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:34,080
martial arts school um yeah for me

848
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,200
myself you know training the martial

849
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:37,360
arts it was my first you know way of

850
00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:39,279
learning about meditation and meditation

851
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:41,279
practices learning about external and

852
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,799
internal martial arts and experiential

853
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:44,640
learning using your body and space and

854
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:46,240
and yes following learning how to fall

855
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:47,520
well is very helpful it's helped me in

856
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:49,279
my own life in mountain biking or

857
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:51,360
snowboarding knowing how to fall well is

858
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:53,840
also very important to protect our lives

859
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:54,640
too

860
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:57,039
um so i'd love to transition now to a

861
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:58,799
new segment we want to try out you're

862
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:00,640
our guinea pig our first test subject

863
00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:03,039
for this new segment it's a rapid fire

864
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:05,120
question segment and so if you can try

865
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:07,120
to keep your answers to like 30 to 60

866
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:09,039
seconds if possible we have a few

867
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:11,360
questions we'd like to ask uh just so

868
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:12,720
our audience has a better kind of

869
00:31:17,669 --> 00:31:15,039
understanding of you and your take on

870
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:17,679
astrobiology and some other topics uh so

871
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:20,000
first and foremost what is your favorite

872
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,399
answer to fermi's question where are

873
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,480
they

874
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:26,880
i don't think the quote-unquote fermi

875
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:30,159
paradox is a paradox um we don't know

876
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:33,279
and we're looking and i think they are

877
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:34,799
going to be different than what we

878
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,120
expect and we haven't seen them because

879
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:39,440
we don't yet know what we're looking for

880
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:41,679
so how do we look

881
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:44,000
more open-mindedly

882
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:47,519
and more critically at the same time

883
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:48,960
very good

884
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,120
if you could go back in time and give

885
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:53,200
your earlier self some advice at the

886
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:55,279
start of your career what advice would

887
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,870
don't worry so much

888
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:06,070
that's a pretty good answer nice and

889
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,279
short

890
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:09,679
um so if there is alien life out there

891
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:11,600
do you think we'll find it first in our

892
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:13,760
solar system or do you think we'll find

893
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:17,360
it first on an exoplanet

894
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,149
i try to keep an open mind on that i

895
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,399
don't i don't want to commit

896
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:26,399
okay i love it you know i guess there's

897
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,000
also the option of neither could be out

898
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:30,720
in space somewhere um what's something

899
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,669
i am really excited

900
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:39,600
about

901
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:42,240
all sorts of things i think artificial

902
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,200
intelligence is a great way to meet

903
00:32:49,269 --> 00:32:47,519
things that are not quite like us but

904
00:32:50,830 --> 00:32:49,279
sort of like us

905
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:50,840
i think that

906
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:54,080
bioengineering and gene editing

907
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:56,720
while they are scary are also just a

908
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:58,720
whole new way of understanding how we

909
00:33:02,070 --> 00:32:59,679
fit

910
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,080
and of course astrobiology

911
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:04,000
i remember very clearly the first

912
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:06,000
astrobiology primer

913
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:08,320
we had this great little diagram that

914
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,960
had a dot for every planet that we had

915
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:12,880
discovered um

916
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:13,679
and

917
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:15,360
there's so many

918
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:17,120
extrasolar planets now that they won't

919
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:19,120
all fit on the page and that's a that's

920
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:21,039
a great problem to have we can we can

921
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,000
start

922
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:24,480
uh asking new sorts of questions

923
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:25,360
so

924
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:27,600
there's just all of these

925
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:30,399
amazing things out there

926
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:32,240
um and there are all sorts of amazing

927
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:34,640
things in there

928
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:37,200
why you know it's a

929
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:38,559
wonderful

930
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:41,840
life if you can explore and discover

931
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:43,039
fantastic

932
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:44,640
what would you say is the best part of

933
00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:49,430
talking to people about what they think

934
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:51,760
is real

935
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:54,159
love that that's so cool um it's a very

936
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,399
fun one for me too um

937
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,640
so here here's the fun one what is the

938
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:01,120
most unbelievable science fact that you

939
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:08,950
i think off the top of my head would be

940
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:12,000
there is a species of bacterium

941
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:14,879
linococcus radidurans

942
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:17,520
which thrives in high levels of

943
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:19,040
radiation

944
00:34:24,069 --> 00:34:21,520
that would basically melt us

945
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:24,079
and this was probably an adaptation to

946
00:34:28,990 --> 00:34:27,520
dryness not radioactivity but the idea

947
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:29,000
that life

948
00:34:33,909 --> 00:34:30,560
responds

949
00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:33,919
with these amazing adaptations and does

950
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:36,399
things we would never imagine

951
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:39,119
ah just blows me away i love that so

952
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:41,359
much yeah so i love dino cox's radio

953
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:43,359
durians too for its name uh the

954
00:34:47,829 --> 00:34:45,679
dinococcus literally means terrible

955
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:47,839
berry uh just like dinosaur meant

956
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:49,760
terrible lizard dinococcus is a terrible

957
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:51,679
berry and i find that pretty funny since

958
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:53,280
it withstands so much radiation it's

959
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:55,599
pretty cool um so thank you so much for

960
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:58,079
your conversation with me but now i'm

961
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:59,680
going to open it up for our audience who

962
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:01,599
are watching on youtube if they have any

963
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,839
specific questions for you as well

964
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:05,440
uh the first one i want to ask actually

965
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:07,359
comes to us from twitter though

966
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:09,520
from our ambassador of this month dr jim

967
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:10,480
pass

968
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,599
he's at astrosociology on twitter

969
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:14,880
and like i said when i started the

970
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:17,839
episode dr pass almost always has really

971
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:19,920
just wonderful questions about how we

972
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:21,280
how we can connect we're doing in

973
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:23,760
astrobiology science to astrobiology

974
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:26,640
sociology and the humanities

975
00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:28,800
so from dr pass when it comes to space

976
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:30,520
education and research

977
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:32,160
multi-disciplinary is too often

978
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:33,839
restricted to the natural and physical

979
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,640
sciences how do religious studies and

980
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,560
more broadly other social sciences and

981
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:40,720
humanities currently contribute into

982
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:42,400
your view and how should these

983
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:47,910
yes um

984
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,440
the 2015 strategy document document from

985
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,520
nasa astrobiology in fact has an

986
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:55,760
appendix that i was one of the authors

987
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:56,480
on

988
00:36:01,670 --> 00:35:59,839
detail

989
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:01,680
but um

990
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:02,960
i think

991
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:06,079
well for me the biggest one is we use

992
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:07,839
this we throw this word life around a

993
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:10,320
lot um and there's a lot of reflection

994
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:12,160
in theology

995
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,640
and sociology and philosophy about what

996
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:16,400
we mean when we say life

997
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:17,680
and different people mean different

998
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:18,560
things

999
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:26,069
with people in the social sciences and

1000
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:27,920
humanities is what we're looking for in

1001
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:29,280
terms of life

1002
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:31,040
i think this question of standard

1003
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,599
standards of evidence is very important

1004
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:35,440
like what does it take to convince us of

1005
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:37,119
something

1006
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:38,480
i think

1007
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:41,520
why we care is deeply important

1008
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:44,560
i think the social structures we use to

1009
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:46,880
ask these questions are really important

1010
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:49,520
and that's an area where science and

1011
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:51,920
religion have interesting and very

1012
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:54,880
diverse ways to contribute

1013
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:57,280
because they tend to be structured

1014
00:37:01,589 --> 00:36:59,359
socially very differently

1015
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:01,599
both of them unfortunately have some

1016
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:04,320
dangerous built-in biases

1017
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,960
and so being able to do theology and

1018
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,880
science at the same time gives us an

1019
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:11,280
opportunity to unpack those biases in a

1020
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:13,200
really powerful way

1021
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,119
i love that so much now that leads so

1022
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:17,599
well into our next question as well

1023
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,000
um which i'm i i thought we would get

1024
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,560
this question and so i'm glad we did um

1025
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:24,720
so i'd love to hear your take on it uh

1026
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:27,599
so on youtube user luis miguel rodriguez

1027
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:28,800
has asked

1028
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:31,119
how can we manage to reconcile a faith

1029
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:33,200
in god with the sciences

1030
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:35,440
and i imagine that luis is speaking

1031
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:37,359
primarily to the fact that there is some

1032
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:39,520
division amongst people who think that

1033
00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:41,040
you can't you can't believe in the

1034
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:42,320
sciences or understand things from the

1035
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:44,960
sciences and have a faith in god and

1036
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:47,680
they have abrahamic religions um i think

1037
00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:49,680
we focus so much on division so i'd love

1038
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,440
to hear your take on on bringing

1039
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:53,760
together both faith and understanding of

1040
00:37:57,589 --> 00:37:56,079
science

1041
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:57,599
yeah part of it is a matter of

1042
00:38:03,430 --> 00:37:59,520
perspective those of us

1043
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:03,440
particularly in the anglican church

1044
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:06,400
have never seen this as a as a big issue

1045
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:08,720
um the founders of modern science were

1046
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:12,560
anglican uh newton and bank bacon um

1047
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:15,440
galileo likewise was was a devout roman

1048
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,640
catholic

1049
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:18,400
and

1050
00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:19,359
i think

1051
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:21,920
the challenge is not one of science per

1052
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:23,839
se but one of theology

1053
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:27,200
and how we come to have our how we how

1054
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:30,000
we come to know what we know um and

1055
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:32,240
think what we think and how we reason

1056
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:33,599
with others

1057
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:34,800
and so

1058
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:37,119
uh the challenge and i do think it is it

1059
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:41,040
is right and good that religious people

1060
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:43,040
have beliefs and i don't think that

1061
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:45,520
those need to be justified by science

1062
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:47,599
i do think that

1063
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,079
science is a wonderful opportunity and

1064
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:53,280
so my my theological convictions

1065
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:55,599
are that we should respect

1066
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:56,720
some

1067
00:39:01,589 --> 00:38:59,599
uh we should respect the in the

1068
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,599
science when it is done well

1069
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:03,440
um and i think most

1070
00:39:07,270 --> 00:39:05,119
christians would agree with that but

1071
00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:07,280
what it means to do it well is a really

1072
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:09,119
tough social question

1073
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:11,200
so i like to encourage people to think

1074
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:12,079
through

1075
00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:15,440
how do we do that work together how do

1076
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,560
we respect what we observe through

1077
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:20,320
empirical reasoning

1078
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:22,320
and peer review and all of these good

1079
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:23,920
scientific things

1080
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:25,839
um

1081
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:27,359
and

1082
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:29,920
how do we take seriously the impact that

1083
00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:31,599
has on our lives and our view of

1084
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:33,599
ourselves uh and our view of our

1085
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:35,280
relationship with god

1086
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:36,640
so

1087
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:40,560
i think it's a an opportunity

1088
00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:41,440
um

1089
00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:43,599
that's a nice beautiful answer i'd like

1090
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:45,520
to actually go to another question then

1091
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,480
um from aeronava padar who's also an

1092
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:50,400
intern for my company this summer uh in

1093
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:51,760
the young scientists program at blue

1094
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:53,839
marble space institute of science uh

1095
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:55,839
erinova also then kind of following on

1096
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:57,920
to that wants to know if if you can

1097
00:40:01,750 --> 00:39:59,599
answer or if there are questions that

1098
00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:01,760
might directly conflict in theology with

1099
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,359
space exploration

1100
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:05,599
um so kind of going on top of that then

1101
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:06,800
i know that there are some people for

1102
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:08,560
instance who are opposed to having

1103
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:11,359
humans go to space or go explore mars

1104
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:13,359
are there conflicts that you see

1105
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:20,390
i think there are many different

1106
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:22,960
theologies

1107
00:40:28,150 --> 00:40:26,160
i do not my own theology does not does

1108
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:28,160
not give me a conflict but that doesn't

1109
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:30,560
mean that others might know

1110
00:40:34,309 --> 00:40:33,440
one of the big questions we can ask

1111
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:34,319
is

1112
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:36,960
and

1113
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:42,480
god gave us responsibility for

1114
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:45,119
the earth and the things in it so it

1115
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:47,359
matters whether you think that

1116
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:49,760
the earth is just the ground beneath our

1117
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:52,000
feet and if martian ground were the

1118
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:53,280
ground beneath our feet we'd be

1119
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:55,200
responsible for that too

1120
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:57,680
or if earth is a planet in which case

1121
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:00,480
god sort of wanted us to be here

1122
00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:03,760
so does god want does god ask us to be

1123
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:07,200
responsible for this place earth or does

1124
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:08,800
god ask us to be responsible for the

1125
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:10,000
universe

1126
00:41:14,230 --> 00:41:12,240
some have argued that theologically we

1127
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:14,240
have an obligation for space travel

1128
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:16,240
because being created in the image and

1129
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:18,240
likeness of god only we can represent

1130
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:22,480
god to other species or other planets

1131
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:24,640
that might be going a little far for me

1132
00:41:27,750 --> 00:41:25,760
um

1133
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:27,760
i i'm open to god working different ways

1134
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:29,280
in different places

1135
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,839
but i i think that

1136
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:34,000
it is important

1137
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:36,079
theologically or philosophically if you

1138
00:41:41,109 --> 00:41:38,079
if you're not inclined towards uh

1139
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:41,119
religion per se to ask this question of

1140
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:43,599
what are our obligations

1141
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:47,520
beyond earth and do we have to meet our

1142
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:50,480
earth obligations before we go elsewhere

1143
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,319
um you know your parents probably told

1144
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:54,240
you that you should like clean your room

1145
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,000
before you go out and play

1146
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:58,319
and uh i think that's probably a good

1147
00:42:01,910 --> 00:41:59,520
principle

1148
00:42:04,630 --> 00:42:01,920
um on the other hand space travel gives

1149
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:04,640
us tools for cleaning up our planet in

1150
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:06,960
new and creative ways so i don't think

1151
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:09,440
there's an easy answer

1152
00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:10,800
i think that

1153
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:13,040
we have to seriously talk about what

1154
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:14,560
scripture

1155
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:18,240
tells us how our relationship with god

1156
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:20,160
impacts our relationship with the world

1157
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:23,040
and vice versa and work through that and

1158
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:25,359
most critically i think

1159
00:42:31,030 --> 00:42:27,920
i i honestly don't trust myself to do it

1160
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:31,040
by myself and i got that from science

1161
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:33,520
um although many of my my calvinist

1162
00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:36,079
friends got that from their christianity

1163
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:39,200
i don't trust myself to reason by myself

1164
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:42,400
i still reason for myself

1165
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:44,640
but i need these communities to help me

1166
00:42:49,589 --> 00:42:46,880
work through all of the implications and

1167
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:49,599
and call me when i'm being silly

1168
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:52,000
so powerful aeronava who asked that

1169
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:53,520
question is one of our interns i

1170
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:55,520
mentioned this summer in the program the

1171
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:58,000
young scientist program he and our other

1172
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,240
interns there are 66 of them this summer

1173
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:02,160
we'll all be taking part in a module

1174
00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:04,079
where they'll explore moral philosophy

1175
00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:06,079
and ethics and ethical frameworks that

1176
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:07,760
we've used to ask just those kinds of

1177
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,400
questions what do we owe each other how

1178
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:12,880
are we to treat each other and how how

1179
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:14,880
are we to treat the earth and space and

1180
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,720
so you know it's really important and

1181
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:18,240
powerful that we consider when we're

1182
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:21,119
doing science and doing anything um the

1183
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:22,800
ethical questions that come into the

1184
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:24,720
things that we do in this world uh so

1185
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:26,000
thank you so much for sharing that i'm

1186
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,000
going to jump back to another question

1187
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:30,319
from luis miguel rodriguez now

1188
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:31,680
because it's a very fun one for

1189
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:35,520
astrobiology in general um and and i i

1190
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:36,960
want i'm curious to see which way which

1191
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,960
direction you take it uh luisa's

1192
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:40,800
question is what is the best way of

1193
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:43,440
defining life

1194
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:47,430
i

1195
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:56,800
moss

1196
00:44:01,750 --> 00:43:59,680
and that life for me

1197
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:01,760
is best defined by the process of

1198
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:04,319
nutrition we both take stuff that's not

1199
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:07,119
us and turn it into us

1200
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:09,200
um which once you start thinking about

1201
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,119
it philosophically is very weird

1202
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:15,520
uh why is it when i eat a hamburger the

1203
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:17,760
hamburger becomes me and i don't become

1204
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:19,760
the hamburger

1205
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:20,880
um

1206
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:23,040
there's also a type of life which refers

1207
00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:27,359
to conscious experience of the world

1208
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:29,440
and

1209
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:30,880
i'm not really sure how to deal with

1210
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:33,440
that it's a it's an i thou question and

1211
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:35,599
i haven't haven't got a good description

1212
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:38,079
yet um there's a type of life which is

1213
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:40,000
being able to to

1214
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:42,560
oh so so the important thing there is

1215
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:44,160
when when people talk about the

1216
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:46,160
beginning and end of human life they're

1217
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:48,480
not talking about the beginning and end

1218
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:49,599
of

1219
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:51,040
we're talking about the beginning and

1220
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:53,200
end of consciousness so i think it's

1221
00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:55,760
important to distinguish between

1222
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:57,839
metabolism and consciousness which are

1223
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:59,440
both very important

1224
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:01,200
concepts of life

1225
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:02,880
consciousness has something to do with

1226
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,599
with personal identity and experience

1227
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:07,760
there's rational life which is the

1228
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:11,520
ability to like know things

1229
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,400
um

1230
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:14,880
and honestly i think that's necessary

1231
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,200
for empiricism but can't be tackled

1232
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:19,599
within the bounds of empiricism

1233
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,040
um and so then you need to start talking

1234
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:23,520
about minds or souls or something else

1235
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:24,560
um

1236
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:26,079
i think we have those i think those are

1237
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:28,880
necessary to do good reasoning um and

1238
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:30,560
they're just not the type of things

1239
00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:32,400
we're familiar with in

1240
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:33,920
modern language so we have to be very

1241
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:35,520
careful talking about them finally

1242
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:37,920
there's spiritual life which is uh you

1243
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:39,599
know to my mind participation in the

1244
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:41,040
life of god

1245
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:43,119
and that's a whole nother type of life

1246
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:45,599
that's related to the first three and

1247
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,720
very important but also very different

1248
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:51,200
as i said that's participation uh you

1249
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,800
know in christian and jewish parlance

1250
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,319
it's breathing

1251
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:56,640
but it's the idea that breathing isn't

1252
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:58,240
just

1253
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,560
moving molecules in and out of your body

1254
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:02,400
it's also

1255
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:05,040
sharing that same breath which is going

1256
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:07,359
in and out of everyone else's body and

1257
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:10,240
being part of a larger whole

1258
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:13,040
so four different types of life all of

1259
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:14,400
which i think are really important to

1260
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:16,720
all of which we're looking for in space

1261
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:18,000
um

1262
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:20,000
but because it's my area of specialism

1263
00:46:23,710 --> 00:46:22,319
and because i'm an evolutionary theorist

1264
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:23,720
um

1265
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:25,359
astrobiologists are looking for

1266
00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:26,960
nutrition

1267
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:29,359
um love it and there's so many ways for

1268
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:31,440
us to explore what it means to be alive

1269
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:34,560
what life is what consciousness is um

1270
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:36,640
for myself i wonder one of my favorite

1271
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:38,720
quotes from the the dune

1272
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:41,760
series of novels is what senses do we

1273
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:43,760
lack that we can't see a universe all

1274
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:45,040
around us

1275
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:46,640
i wonder do you think there's anything

1276
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,400
that we are missing right now as a

1277
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:50,720
species as a biosphere do you think

1278
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:51,520
there's anything that we're really

1279
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:53,119
missing that there might be some bigger

1280
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:53,920
hole

1281
00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:55,599
to the universe that we just can't

1282
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:03,510
i think i'll use humans as a metaphor

1283
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:05,520
but i think this applies to species as

1284
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:08,000
well and maybe planets

1285
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:10,240
i don't think god would have made seven

1286
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:11,920
eight billion of us if one of us would

1287
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:14,000
have done

1288
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,160
which means that their their unique

1289
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,960
perspective to every location in the

1290
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:20,240
universe

1291
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,359
and our goal in life is not to

1292
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:25,839
find the best perspective

1293
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:27,760
but to share the perspectives and put

1294
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:30,400
them all together

1295
00:47:36,150 --> 00:47:32,640
i also think that you can't really know

1296
00:47:37,270 --> 00:47:36,160
yourself until you know someone else

1297
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:37,280
and so

1298
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:39,839
another species particularly sorry like

1299
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:42,640
another biosphere um or uh another

1300
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:45,040
intelligent species

1301
00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:47,440
would tell us so much about ourselves

1302
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:49,040
that we can't see because we're too

1303
00:47:53,349 --> 00:47:51,440
close to it

1304
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:53,359
yeah absolutely that's like comparative

1305
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,440
planetology it has taught us so much

1306
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:57,599
more about our own world and so

1307
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:00,960
comparative astrobiology if we had an

1308
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:02,880
example two or example three example

1309
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,319
four of life that really starts giving

1310
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,720
us some ways of exploring not just you

1311
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:08,640
know the science the physical nature of

1312
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:10,000
our makeup and the matter of the

1313
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:11,520
universe but also

1314
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:13,520
other topics in consciousness and

1315
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:16,240
understanding um where we come from

1316
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:17,359
um

1317
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:19,280
intellectual i want to say it's it's

1318
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:21,520
emotional and spiritual too

1319
00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:27,510
uh we have a question from marina ripan

1320
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,640
on youtube

1321
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:30,640
uh marina has said what are the things

1322
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:33,440
that help unite science and religion

1323
00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:35,599
how much are both open to each other and

1324
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:40,630
it's entirely possible to have a

1325
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:42,160
theology that tells you to ignore

1326
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,359
science

1327
00:48:48,630 --> 00:48:45,520
um i'm comfortable saying from my

1328
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:48,640
perspective that's a bad theology um but

1329
00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:50,480
you have to make your your value

1330
00:48:52,549 --> 00:48:51,839
judgments there

1331
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,559
so

1332
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,880
i think that

1333
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:56,800
most of the major world

1334
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:59,520
all of the major world religions

1335
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:01,280
definitely have strands within them that

1336
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:05,040
say we have been called upon to know

1337
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:07,760
as best we can know and science is one

1338
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:10,319
of the best ways of knowing

1339
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:13,599
i think that that as a christian hope

1340
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:16,559
faith and charity line up very well

1341
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:18,880
with curiosity

1342
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:20,559
uh discovery

1343
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,520
uh

1344
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:23,200
and and engagement

1345
00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:25,119
and so for me

1346
00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:26,720
science and

1347
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:29,599
theology are deeply integrated for those

1348
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,800
of you who are particularly interested

1349
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:32,480
margaret osler has a book on the

1350
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:34,800
foundations of the modern philosophy of

1351
00:49:37,589 --> 00:49:35,760
science

1352
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:37,599
and why this was originally a theology

1353
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:38,640
discussion

1354
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:40,640
um

1355
00:49:44,950 --> 00:49:43,040
of course they go together because

1356
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:44,960
we are all people dealing with the same

1357
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:47,839
world and trying to figure it out

1358
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:49,119
fantastic

1359
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:51,040
um we have a question from rendering

1360
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,599
reality 3d animations which we're pretty

1361
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:55,599
sure is our friend tom caruso a long

1362
00:50:01,349 --> 00:49:58,640
time viewer of the show as well um

1363
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,359
and it might be a loaded question um i

1364
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:03,280
will see how you want to answer this

1365
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:05,520
how do we merge an open-minded pursuit

1366
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:08,079
of science with a balanced set of morals

1367
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:09,839
and a strong faith

1368
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:19,109
i am

1369
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:21,920
very much on the fence on this question

1370
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:23,760
i think that

1371
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:26,480
there is an ideal of value-free

1372
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:29,359
objectivity in science

1373
00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:31,280
and the important thing for me has been

1374
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:34,240
the realization that that is an ideal

1375
00:50:38,470 --> 00:50:35,920
it will never be perfectly achieved

1376
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:38,480
which means we must always struggle to

1377
00:50:41,990 --> 00:50:40,880
be better at it

1378
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:42,000
but

1379
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:42,800
as

1380
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:47,200
this is perfectly straightforward for me

1381
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:49,760
the church is inherently messed up

1382
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:52,079
because we are are limited created

1383
00:50:54,790 --> 00:50:53,440
beings

1384
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:54,800
and so

1385
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:57,280
theology as well is this

1386
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:01,520
ideal enterprise that we want to do well

1387
00:51:04,870 --> 00:51:03,119
but we'll only do it well if we

1388
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,880
constantly recognize that we're not

1389
00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:06,480
there yet

1390
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:07,359
so

1391
00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:09,839
i think that science is an ideal i think

1392
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:12,640
the ideals of objectivity

1393
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:14,240
and um

1394
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:16,240
impartiality are just

1395
00:51:21,349 --> 00:51:19,280
so important as long as we don't use

1396
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:21,359
them as excuses to think that we're

1397
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:24,000
already unbiased

1398
00:51:28,870 --> 00:51:25,680
and therefore don't need to work at it

1399
00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:28,880
anymore that's when science goes wrong

1400
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:29,920
intriguing

1401
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:32,319
um we have one more question here from

1402
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:34,079
one of our production assistants anna

1403
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:37,359
root mohanty um anur asks as a christian

1404
00:51:40,790 --> 00:51:38,800
with an educational background in

1405
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:40,800
evolutionary biology what do you

1406
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:42,960
consider truth if some information is

1407
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:44,480
contradictory

1408
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:47,200
um so and and maybe he concludes how do

1409
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:55,589
uh strictly speaking i prioritize

1410
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:57,359
beliefs in which i have strong

1411
00:52:00,549 --> 00:51:59,200
confidence

1412
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:00,559
so

1413
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:02,960
if if we say the word truth we're

1414
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,559
already committed to knowing it and

1415
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:06,720
there's there's a few things in my in my

1416
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:08,079
religious faith that i'll go ahead and

1417
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,960
say i know like i i know god exists i

1418
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:12,559
know god loves me i recognize other

1419
00:52:17,349 --> 00:52:15,200
people don't know those

1420
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:17,359
in the way that i do um and that gives

1421
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:19,359
me pause but um

1422
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,440
most of my beliefs both in religion and

1423
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:23,440
science are just things in which i have

1424
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:25,520
strong confidence

1425
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:28,400
and the question is how do i assess how

1426
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:30,720
much confidence i have

1427
00:52:35,270 --> 00:52:33,119
so i'll do a quick plug i have a book

1428
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:35,280
called thinking fair rules for reason in

1429
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:36,800
science and religion

1430
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:39,280
uh and i break down sort of

1431
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:41,040
why i have confidence in some things and

1432
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,960
why not others and how to measure that

1433
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:44,720
and how that lines up with with a thing

1434
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:46,880
called credence which is

1435
00:52:50,069 --> 00:52:49,040
how strongly my beliefs affect my

1436
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:50,079
behavior

1437
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:52,319
and how we get the strength of our

1438
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:54,160
belief to match the strength of our

1439
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:55,440
confidence

1440
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:58,559
uh is a very tough question

1441
00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:00,240
that's very powerful i i don't know if

1442
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,760
we had a link to plug for the book but

1443
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:03,119
we'll definitely find that for after the

1444
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:05,280
episode to share with our audience as

1445
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:08,000
well um so just a few more minutes here

1446
00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:10,079
um for myself so so you know this is

1447
00:53:13,829 --> 00:53:11,440
something obviously you know our viewers

1448
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:13,839
are very intrigued by by maybe science

1449
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:16,319
versus religion science and religion

1450
00:53:21,270 --> 00:53:18,559
kind of these comparisons if you could

1451
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:21,280
moderate a conversation with any

1452
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:23,839
luminaries any scholars from any time in

1453
00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:25,200
human history

1454
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:27,599
to have this conversation of how we how

1455
00:53:32,870 --> 00:53:30,640
we build forward in religion and science

1456
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:32,880
and understanding what kinds of people

1457
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,720
or who maybe would you want to bring

1458
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:36,880
together to that conversation to

1459
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:39,599
moderate the the world conversation of

1460
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:41,520
humans um to help us find the way

1461
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:43,440
forward

1462
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:44,160
it's

1463
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:50,160
i really want to talk to the people that

1464
00:53:53,910 --> 00:53:52,160
i haven't heard from

1465
00:53:55,589 --> 00:53:53,920
um so

1466
00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:55,599
unfortunately

1467
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:56,800
um

1468
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,640
both the science conversation and the

1469
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:00,720
theology conversation have been

1470
00:54:06,230 --> 00:54:04,400
dominated by people in power

1471
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:06,240
and so it'd be very interesting to reach

1472
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:07,920
out to some of those people who were not

1473
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:10,559
allowed to speak for themselves

1474
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:12,160
historically

1475
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:13,280
um

1476
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:16,240
there is a uh a theologian by the name

1477
00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:19,680
of uh macrena from ancient greece

1478
00:54:23,829 --> 00:54:21,839
and um

1479
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:23,839
her brother wrote a whole lot of very

1480
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:26,800
popular theology um so we get a little

1481
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:27,839
bit of her

1482
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,119
but um

1483
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:31,359
so i would like to get some of those

1484
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:32,960
voices

1485
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:34,960
i think

1486
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:36,960
i would be really interested

1487
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:39,599
this category of science as a modern

1488
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:41,200
category

1489
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:42,400
and so

1490
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:45,040
figuring out how different people in

1491
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:46,880
different places and times have sliced

1492
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:49,040
up the world differently

1493
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:51,119
is really important to me and i'm i'm

1494
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:53,040
hoping uh those of you in the audience

1495
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:54,640
can hope with me to get a grant that

1496
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:56,559
will allow us to do uh some

1497
00:55:00,789 --> 00:54:58,720
international dialogue

1498
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:00,799
and see how different cultures address

1499
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:03,040
the science religion question that's

1500
00:55:07,030 --> 00:55:05,119
fantastic i mean we had natural history

1501
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:07,040
and natural philosophy and then we had

1502
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:09,040
you know science kind of being born and

1503
00:55:12,549 --> 00:55:10,720
then we had science being cut down

1504
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:12,559
itself into smaller disciplines and

1505
00:55:15,910 --> 00:55:14,400
sub-disciplines and sub-sub-disciplines

1506
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:15,920
and it's one thing i love in

1507
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:18,400
astrobiology is it brings things kind of

1508
00:55:22,069 --> 00:55:20,480
back together and i feel like right now

1509
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:22,079
we're at this place where a lot of us

1510
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:25,359
are recognizing the need to bring things

1511
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:27,440
back together and try to start having a

1512
00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:30,720
wider world view in science and theology

1513
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:32,559
and philosophy and spirituality and

1514
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:36,799
other realms so i love that so much

1515
00:55:40,789 --> 00:55:38,640
i think we are going to end our episode

1516
00:55:42,789 --> 00:55:40,799
here in one moment uh if there is any

1517
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,799
single message you would like to share

1518
00:55:46,589 --> 00:55:44,559
with younger people or people of the

1519
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:46,599
world who want to pursue

1520
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:49,680
astrobiology from both science as well

1521
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,319
as theology or other realms what what

1522
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:54,880
message would you share with them

1523
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:57,920
don't stop asking questions

1524
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:00,400
fantastic reverend dr lucas mix thank

1525
00:56:04,150 --> 00:56:02,720
you so much for joining us for ask an

1526
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:04,160
astrobiologist it's been a pleasure

1527
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,920
having you on the show

1528
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:07,599
joy to be here

1529
00:56:11,349 --> 00:56:09,440
and for all of our our guests watching

1530
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:11,359
right now on youtube or watching the

1531
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:13,680
recording later on uh it's a pleasure

1532
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:16,160
having all of you join us as always you

1533
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:17,440
can always reach out and ask us

1534
00:56:22,109 --> 00:56:20,400
questions using the hashtag askastrobio

1535
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,119
on twitter you can find me at

1536
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:24,640
cosmobiologist uh you can find us at

1537
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,720
sagan.org as well as at nasa astrobio

1538
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:30,559
and always you can ask questions in the

1539
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:32,400
chat as well in the comments section on

1540
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:34,559
youtube videos i'm always checking those

1541
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:35,920
out and trying my best to respond as

1542
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:38,079
soon as i can uh so for all of you

1543
00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:40,319
joining out there uh for dr reverend

1544
00:56:48,340 --> 00:56:43,040
lucas mix for joining us uh thank you so